Always in Our Minds....

Tuesday, August 01, 2006

A point of view

I've come to relaize that there's a debate going on on my blog. And since it's important, I wanted to show it right here...

A reader from Israel, nadav wrote the following:
"I am well aware of the damage that the tragic incident (which you call "massacre") has caused both for Israel and for peace seeking Lebanese. I learned about it when I woke up yesterday, and opened the Internet. Believe it or not, when I saw what had happened I felt physically sick to the extent that I needed to lie down for a couple of minutes. I knew at that moment, that not only many innocent lives were taken, but that we delivered Hezballa with the best ammunition it could wish for. Naseralla had wished exactly this kind of event to occur, because this was the only way he could have gotten out of this conflict triumphant. No matter how many Katiusha rockets we destroy and how many Hezballa figthers we kill, Lebanon is now united behind him, because of our military's horrible mistake. I know this all too well, believe me.But I still call upon you to ask yourself: What is this all about? The Sheba farms? A no man streach of land, 14 km long, 2km wide? A streach of land that the United Nations acknowledged as belogning to Syria, not Lebanon? Or is it the two Lebanese prisoners? One of them, Samir Kuntar, is a cold-blooded murderer, who killed a father and his two daughters at their home, and the other - an Israeli born spy? Does it worth it? And more importantly - do you really believe Hezballa has built such monstrous bunkers and piled up so many missiles and launchers for the sake of these causes?No, my friend (if you allow me calling you so), anyone can see there are much larger interests invloved, and the stakes are much much higher. Stakes, that Israel cannot afford to live with.As far as I'm concerned, you can have the Sheba farm, and your two prisoners. Will Hezbollah disarm after this happens? Only if forced to do so, and currently I don't see anyone who can and wishes to do so. I have hard time believing that the Lebanese goverment can disarm it, and I know for sure that the Iranian don't want to.We have no interest destroying your land, but the threat of Hezballa as a remote Iranian military outpost, was just too great for us to ignore, and it got greater by the day, with no other force but us, which can stop it.Hezballah may have been seen as a legitimate patriotic resistance as long as Israel held the security zone in South Lebanon. It is no longer that movement. It still uses "patriotic" excuses, but what really makes it going now - should worry you no less then it worries us.سلام عليكوم "

And here's a reply i got on my e-mail from a guy named Elie from Beirut:
"You said it yourself, Nadav, what does sebaa farms mean? let me ask you this, what does it mean to Israel? It's just giving Hezbolla a reason to survive. If you guys admit it worth nothing in your eyes, then just withdraw from it! Put Hezollah in th corner, disarm it from all its survival excuses. At least, by that the Lebanese government can say that all the lebanese land have been freed, anf hezbollah doen't constitute a patriotic resistance movement anymore.But when Israel continue occupying shabaa farms, and now establishin a new "security zone" as you call it (while it's simply occupying more and more lebanese territories), you are giving all the reasons to hizbollah to NOT only survive, but gain the support of all Lebanese.You said it yourself, this war ain't going to bring peace to Israel, you are loosing whatever you are doing, and Lebanon is suffering, only Hezbollah will march out victorious, and guess what? strnger than ever and having the support of the Lebanese.STOP giving Hezbollah excuses to survive, withdraw from shebaa farms and the rest of lebanese lands....As for the two lebanese presoners, if you say that one of them is a murderer who killed an Israeli family, then guess what? he two Israeli soldiers are murderers as well, in fact the whole Israeli army is a nurderer of poor innocent Lebanese civilliace. or you're gunna use the "double-standard" method again?If anyone is responsible for the existance of hezbollah, it's Israel and its stupid mistakes in Lebanon. This war will not disarm hezbollah, and IDF has just relaize that, but they are too proud to admit it....."

Two points I just feel like I need to talk about:
1) What happen in Qana is a MASSACRE, don't hide behind the truth, Nadav. When 55 people, mostly women and children, are killed in such a brutal way, it is called a massacre, not atragic incident. You can call a murder a tragic imcident, bu when you bombard innocent people hiding from IDF attacks, this has one name..... a MASSACRE.

2) Maybe shebaa farms doesn't mean anything to Israelis, but for lebanese, each and every sand of our lands matters as much as the whole Lebanon. And if you think it's not such an important thing, then just withdraw from it.

I'm not taking sides here, and I can see that you, Nadav, is a reasonable man. I don't support hezbollah, and we spent the whole of the last year asking for a full-control of the lebanese Government to all Lebanese territories, but once again Nadav, when Israel is attacking us and killing our innocent civilliance, we can't ask the only force defending Lebanon to disarm itself. I think you know what I'm talking about.

I'm glad that we're having such good illustration of points of views, keep it coming guys, but please name things by its real names, and don't hide behind your noses.


Anonymous said...

The word "massacre" implies intent. If you think that Israel intended to kill civilians at that particular location, you are mistaken. Israel has no intent to kill civilians; indeed, if it did, there would be no one left alive in Lebanon. It was a horrible mistake, and I wish it hadn't happened.

Of course, you may think that this is an easy thing to say, sitting here in California where no bombers are circling over my house. I would like to respond: you, too, can have peace and quiet forever. You just have to kick out Hezbollah. Every time I see a Lebanese blog side with these people, I think that maybe your civilian casualties are inevitable in the long run. Every time I am angered by an Israeli bombing run, there is a Lebanese blogger praising Hezbollah that makes me think that the bombing run was justified.

Anonymous said...

so according to you, 848 casualties and more than 900000 regugees are not an "intented" action, they just happen to be,huh?

Would you accept to kick out IDF to have peace and quite forever? how about that?

I can't believe how some people thinks, and you are right, sitting overthere in california makes it very easy to say it is a "horrible mistake". It's weird though how these "mistakes" are so often reaccuring in IDF's history (starting by der yassine massacre as early as 1840's, Sabra and shateela in the 1980's, Qana 2006, and much much more). But then I guess the more powerful the army is, the higher its mistakes....

Anonymous said...

Just correction, Der yassine massacre happened in the 1940's, not to forget the first Qana massacre in 1996

Anonymous said...

another correction:
the Sabra and shateela massacre was all yours, lebanese slouthering lebanese. sharon was kicked out for not preventing it.
so it was an all lebanese tribal war crime, not israel's.

Anonymous said...

you said:
"Maybe shebaa farms doesn't mean anything to Israelis, but for lebanese, each and every sand of our lands matters as much as the whole Lebanon"

its funny you have such strong feelings for a peice of land that is not even yours, but since you have thise feelings, lets have a deal: when you take back the control over the rest of your country, you can have the syrian land.

another point: same as i say to right wing people here in israel: if land and national pride are more important than human life, be preaperd to pay rhe price for them. having pro-war ideas is never free of charge.
the same applies for you.

yoav israel